The Legal Zone (S3:E2): What a CDRE can do to Streamline the Sale of the Home in a Divorce

Transcript

Host: Regina M. Campbell, Esq., The Campbell Law Group (TCLG)

Guest: Pablo Gomez, Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert (CDRE), Lifestyle International Realty

Introduction

Regina Campbell: Hi, I'm Regina Campbell. I'm your host here at The Legal Zone, brought to you by The Campbell Law Group. We want to welcome everybody back for Season 3, Episode 2 of The Legal Zone. Here we're going to be talking to a CDRE expert today, and we have a wonderful guest waiting for us. But just for a moment, we're going to take a step back and talk a little bit about our prior speaker, in case you missed it.

Our prior speaker was Samantha Reynolds, and she was able to provide us with advice on how to take better care of ourselves: from a business point of view, and also from an employee's point of view, the benefits added by putting certain wellness programs into a company and making them part of the company environment, making certain changes that help employees feel comfortable and less stressed out, not just at work, but also at home. Ms. Reynolds also had a lot to say to business owners about how to manage the stresses that come in and out of their lives. She's basically a lifestyle architect. In the last episode she went into a bunch of things, and she gave us things that we all committed to start just today. It literally just takes a flip of a switch to start thinking about things differently and live a healthier lifestyle. It's a really, really important podcast, and I highly recommend it. If you missed it, you can go back and see it on YouTube, or you can check out the podcast.

As for our guest today, I'm going to go ahead and talk about what he does, because it's really interesting. As a family law attorney, I came across Mr. Gomez and I was like, "Wow, I have not heard of that." So I wanted to share his insight and his expertise with everybody today. Mr. Gomez is a Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert. That's what CDRE stands for. And today he's going to help us understand how to streamline the sale of a home during a divorce.

Mr. Gomez has handled the sale of real estate property in many family law cases. He also provides services to the courts and the legal community in general: he can help provide title reports and fair market values, so other court experts or attorneys can use that information in court proceedings. He has real-life experience. He has sold over 60 homes, grossing over $20 million in sales volume. So hats off to Mr. Gomez. That's fantastic. He formerly earned a bachelor's in international business, and he is now a top producer at his brokerage company. He also manages the Kendall branch of Lifestyle International Realty, where he manages over 200 agents through their deals.

Mr. Gomez knows that the market is forever changing, so he's very cognizant of always trying to be ahead of the curve. He's always focused on people selling houses, both the parties selling houses and the legal community, and how to do so, particularly in this fast-changing market. He's always involved in cutting-edge techniques and is constantly a student of his own craft, improving everything. So I want to welcome Mr. Gomez today.

Pablo Gomez: Hi. Thank you, Ms. Regina, for having me. It is a pleasure to be here today, and hopefully we can have a good conversation.

What a Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert does

Regina Campbell: I have no doubt. Okay, perfect. So let's start off here. Talk to me about what a Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert is.

Pablo Gomez: Of course. As you may already know, divorce real estate is a unique expertise. As the only Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert in Miami, my role is bigger than just selling the real property. My job is to be a third-party neutral, to prevent and mitigate conflict, and also to ensure that honest and fair dealing is happening among the parties. And the most important part is to sell the property for its highest value.

Handling a divorce listing is way different from just selling a regular home. I bet you've been in a case where your opposing counsel is a lawyer who doesn't really practice family law. That might make your job so much harder, and it's the same thing in the realtor world. We have realtors who specialize in foreclosure sales and short sales, or just regular, happy buying of a home, or selling a property to buy a bigger home. But when you have a divorce listing that's under the jurisdiction of a court, or there are restraining orders in place, or personal property has not been divided, or both parties pretty much don't agree on the time of day, that's where my specialized training comes in.

I got my certification with the Alumni Institute, and they are the most respected designation in divorce real estate. I went through a six-month training, and we continue our education by doing case studies of real-life cases. We also practice role-playing certain situations, high-conflict situations, that help us navigate the transaction so much more smoothly. These are things that a regular real estate agent will not do. So that's what I bring to the table when I am handling the sale of a property in a divorce.

Regina Campbell: Okay, wonderful. It sounds like, like you said, it's a niche area. It's something very handy, and I assume it's also very helpful to parties going through divorces. I can't stress it well enough: you may not have someone agreeing to fair market value, or to "Let's fix this part of the house. Will it really add value or help sell the house?" And then you have communication issues that are already going on, which make it more difficult, I assume.

Pablo Gomez: Definitely.

Divide personal property and plan the proceeds early

Regina Campbell: So talk to me about some of the helpful things for people looking to sell their marital residence during a divorce proceeding. Are there any particular things you've learned that seem to work well and could help everybody?

Pablo Gomez: Yes, definitely, I do have some advice. To answer your question, my first advice is for when two parties are getting divorced and getting ready to sell the property, and the only option is to get the property sold to be able to pay for the divorce or pay for the attorneys. We all know that divorce can get very costly. I recommend, first of all, dividing the personal property. It can get very difficult if the property goes live on the market and the personal property has not been divided. You don't want to get into a contract or accept an offer and then start deciding who's going to keep the couch, who's going to keep the table, and if there are four bar stools, who's going to keep those, so two for the wife and two for the husband. You want to know that ahead of time. You want to run an inventory, put it on paper, go back to the attorneys and just have that clear. It will help the division go a lot more smoothly, trust me.

My second piece of advice that would help a lot when you're getting divorced is that in the beginning stages of the transaction, you need to identify where the proceeds are going, meaning whether it's going to be divided 50-50 or it's going to go to an attorney's trust account. You might run into a case, and this is typical, this happens a lot, where the husband is the one who makes all the money, and the wife, the in-spouse, the one living in the property, needs a place to go, but she's counting on the sale of the property to be able to rent or buy something else. If the court order says that the proceeds are going to an attorney's trust account, the wife may not have any money to go somewhere else.

But you might want to do something, and this has happened to me in the past, where you do an agreement. Typically attorneys don't have any problem with this if there's enough equity in the home. You might want to tap into that equity and say, "Okay, so at closing each party will get," just to put a number as an example, "$10,000 each." That way the wife, the in-spouse, has enough money to rent, or maybe put a down payment on a home. So those are the two pieces of advice I would recommend for parties who are getting divorced and are in the process of selling a property, and I would have those conversations early on.

Regina Campbell: I agree. As a practitioner, I'm going to go into your first point too, because it's ironic when you said that... I'm sorry, I'm sorry. There was a delay there, so I didn't realize you were still talking.

Pablo Gomez: No problem.

Regina Campbell: So, as a practitioner, I've had this issue also. Normally I try to get everything locked up beforehand in an agreement for that reason. I'll give you a couple of examples of why I've learned to do that as well. It's ironic you say that, because I have come across situations where I'm inheriting a case after the fact and it's a mess. For instance, even just the personal property itself: the bar stools, the couch, right? Some buyers come in and go, "I love the way you have this. Is everything for sale? Is the furniture for sale or not for sale?" So to know that ahead of time, rather than having to go back and divide the property, or talk to the two attorneys about whether they'll agree to give the property as part of the sale, is always a challenge.

The other thing I find, and it's a little less common, is that people sometimes have home stereo systems, sort of inside improvements that will stay with the house: built-in stereo systems, very expensive curtains, or something very special to them that normally you assume stays with the house, but it may not. So it's very important to know. I had one party where the wife wanted to gut the house, all the nice lights, and take the stereo system out, and a lot of it was built in. And I'm like, "But you're changing that. That's going to devalue the house. It's going to be a problem." You can have buyers looking at it like this, and then you're going to take it down. As a practical matter, it's harder for them: they look at how beautiful it looks, but she's taking it all, and they try to imagine it without it. The first thing they're going to imagine is a lower price, right? Not good.

So those kinds of things do make a difference. And then it's a big problem, like you said, where it has to be worked out where the other party who lives there is going to move. Do they have enough money to get a deposit somewhere? Where are the children going to go? That has to be thought out ahead of time. And sometimes the parties don't trust each other either: who's going to hold the money?

I've gone a step further, just because litigation is the way it is and I could see that people cannot get along. I've gone a step further with putting provisions in an agreement, or asking the court to put things into an order, that make it more turnkey. They agree to sell the house within a certain percentage of fair market value. They agree to sell within a certain percentage of what the real estate agent says is a decent price. They'll only go down a certain amount per year. We actually try to take some of the contingencies that could happen during a sale and agree on them ahead of time, so it does not spell trouble when you try to sell the house. Otherwise more people come, and if you have different buyers, they keep having to leave because they smell trouble. No one can ever answer questions: "The realtor can't give me the answer because the two parties are fighting," or it's yes and no. The house also starts to develop a reputation among other realtors: "This is the problem one." I assume you've dealt with that too, right?

Pablo Gomez: Oh, yes. And just to add to what you were talking about earlier with personal property: by law, when you sell a home, let's say the furniture is not included, the property needs to be turned over free and clear of personal property. So the last thing you want is that during the final walkthrough, which is typically the day before closing or the day before the escrow closing, the buyer goes in and there's still a couch, there are still toys from the children, there's still maybe a bed frame that was left. And because there wasn't an agreement about who was taking what from the beginning, it might just be a miscommunication.

Let's say there's a restraining order. The husband doesn't want to go into the house because there's a restraining order in place, and he can't just go in and take his stuff. You have to set that up. You have to organize that. So the job of a real estate agent is to make sure of that, because it's not your job as the attorney to do that. If you have a real estate agent who knows what they're doing and can solve that for you, it just makes it so much simpler and smoother, since they're the ones in the house doing the showings and the open houses. So it's the right thing to have it on paper, have everybody agree and have everybody be on the same page.

Showings, access and a united front

Regina Campbell: Yeah. I assume you also know the specifics: "This door doesn't open," or "These are the special codes," or "This is when you come in and out." A lot more little details come into it that can also affect their ability to communicate, to show houses on time, to be on the same page. So as a realtor, you really become that communication hub, and you're seeing it. If you see a problem, you can immediately raise it: "Listen, last time I showed it, the back door didn't open." "Well, my ex-husband, my husband, has the keys. He won't give me the keys." So that becomes problematic for the seller. The buyer doesn't care. The buyer just wants to go in and look.

I've had situations where the parties still live together when the house goes to be shown, but the husband is literally closing off an entire part of the house so the wife cannot get into that part of the house. Well, now you have to coordinate to make sure that wing of the house is open when you go to show it.

Pablo Gomez: That is very true. You may have a room that's locked, and maybe the husband doesn't want people to go in there because he has private stuff in there. You have to know how to navigate that. And buyers want to see the entire house. They want to go into every single room, because at the end of the day, it's an investment and they're the ones buying it. So if there's a room that's closed, I need to know what's in there, and maybe take a picture or photograph it. I don't have to show it, but as long as I have a photo of it or a quick video, I can show the prospective buyer in my listing.

Regina Campbell: Yes, correct. And again, a united front is best, because when buyers can smell tension or problems and they realize the circumstances in the background, you see that price dropping like crazy, which ultimately is going to affect the parties negatively as well.

Pablo Gomez: Definitely.

Regina Campbell: So there's also... I'm sorry, go ahead.

Pablo Gomez: Sorry, there's a little delay. No, but I wanted to say you are absolutely right. It's funny that you mentioned that, because I was going to touch on it later on in this meeting. You're absolutely right: when there's an appraisal, the appraiser needs to go inside the property and measure and see every single room, and so does an inspector. The inspectors have to check every single wall, every single air vent, every single window. They need to see the property to be able to insure it. So having the right conversations and asking the right questions early on might just help the case run so much faster.

Maximizing the price of the home

Regina Campbell: That makes sense, and I can definitely see how those tips and tactics you have developed as a Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert would be great. So what is the best way families can maximize the price of the house in a divorce?

Pablo Gomez: Yes, that's a very good question, Ms. Regina. The first thing I'm going to say in answer is that to be able to maximize value, the first thing I do, with a regular sale and with a divorce listing, is a walkthrough of the property in my initial intake. I take pictures and video of the home, and while I'm doing the walkthrough and taking my pictures and videos, I will give my recommendations: things that might help maximize the value and the sale of the property when it comes to the net proceeds. The clutter in the house. Painting in a different color if the color is too dark: if you have a room that is purple, I might ask you to paint it white or beige, not because I don't like the color purple, but because to a prospective buyer we have to be as neutral as possible.

I might also recommend washing the roof, pressure-cleaning the driveway, or cutting the grass before we take pictures and videos. Because the last thing you want is that the house is extremely cluttered, the walls are painted a color that is not very attractive, the roof is dirty, stuff like that. I will have a conversation with the in-spouse so we can get it fixed and get it correct for pictures and videos before hitting the market. And the good thing is that I do have a list of providers ready to assist for every single listing, if you need them.

The second thing I run into a lot in listings, especially in divorce listings, is when there are two parties who pretty much don't agree on anything. The in-spouse may not want to sell the house. One of the parties may want to keep it, and they might make it very hard to allow people to see it, to allow showings. That makes the job so much more difficult. It is a requirement anyway in my contract that 90% of all showings are accepted. And if there's any type of inconvenience, let's say the wife works until seven, so she cannot be physically in the home to open the door for me before 7:00 p.m., then I need to know that. Because if the property is not shown, the property won't sell.

One thing in my line of business, in the real estate world: when we run comparables to evaluate a property, we have something called average days on market. What that means is that we see how long it takes for a comparable house to be sold, and we do an average. So let's say I have 30 days to get top dollar for the property. That means I have 30 days to get as many buyers as possible inside that home, and I have 30 days to sell it for top dollar, because after 30 days the property is going to decrease in value.

Regina Campbell: Yeah.

Pablo Gomez: So that's a very important thing I have a conversation about. And the good thing is that, aside from having open communication and knowing if there are any restrictions when it comes to showings, we have an app called ShowingTime, or Showing Assist. What that means is that I can add the in-spouse to that application by email, and she can approve and deny the showings. Let's say 85% of all my showings are being canceled. That's when I will reach out to the attorney. Because I'm an empath, I will go to the attorney and request help, because obviously I have a goal, and I have homework: to get that property sold. And if I can't show it, I can't sell it.

Regina Campbell: At that point you might need court intervention, ordering the person to be available at certain times or requiring them to do certain tasks, right? Because it does happen too. I've been in those circumstances where I literally have to nail down as many steps as I can, to avoid going back to court every five minutes to say, "Well, now they won't let me... Now they'll let me pull out the chair, but now they won't let me open the door." You almost have to anticipate, depending on the circumstances, and front-run it, or get an order requiring that person to comply. Because again, they are making it more difficult, and it's going to signal to the market that this house has trouble, that it's difficult, or that one of the parties doesn't want to sell. And ultimately it negatively impacts the sellers of the property too, and also your job, I assume.

Pablo Gomez: No, definitely. As a Certified Divorce Real Estate Expert, I have email templates that I can use to handle those situations. That's what I mean: in Alumni we do what is called role play. We will role-play these kinds of situations: how we're going to sit down in front of our clients to solve these problems, and how to write an email to an attorney that can get the job done.

Also when it comes to fair market values and the valuation of a property: how do I explain that? How do I show it when both parties have a different number? One of them wants to sell it for $500,000, the other one wants to sell it for $700,000. I need to show factual proof of the comparables in the area. I'll go a little more into that later, but when it comes to square footage and the condition of the home, I want to make sure they both have the same facts, so we can all agree on the value, because they both have to agree. They're both the owners.

Setting a floor price

Regina Campbell: Yeah. So have you had a situation where the court will actually set a ceiling or a floor price to sell at, because they just can't get along? It takes a while sometimes to go into court. You can't always get a hearing every time you might need it, and you have an offer on the table that's good for 48 hours. What do you do, right? It takes a lot to go into court and force someone to sell, or show that this is a reasonable price and the other party is just being difficult. It takes a while to move the needle with the courts to get a resolution, or to order the sale of the house, to force the sale at a certain price. Do you ever work with floors and ceilings? Obviously, I would assume the buyers and the sellers don't want that information public. But have you ever had to go to that extreme in cases that are very contentious?

Pablo Gomez: I missed the very beginning of the question. I heard the end. Would you mind repeating it one more time?

Regina Campbell: No problem at all. Have you ever had a situation where a court has had to set a floor or a ceiling on a price, because it doesn't make sense, they can't get along? If you have someone who comes in and makes an offer on a house for a million, and you have 48 hours to accept it, and a million is an amazing price, but the other party just wants to be difficult, you keep losing deals. So you ask a court to set a minimum or a maximum at which they can sell, so that the party who's obstructionist cannot continue to keep the house from selling, right? Have you ever had that situation where it's ordered?

Pablo Gomez: Most definitely. What I like doing is getting that floor number from both spouses. When I do my intakes, meaning when, let's say, I'm either appointed by the court or referred by one of the attorneys, I do separate intakes with the spouses, because I don't know if they're even going to get along, or if the divorce is a high-conflict divorce. When I do my numbers and my fair market values, I ask them, "What is the lowest that you will take for the property?"

Then, once I receive an offer, if I know that we're a little bit off, let's say my comparables are coming back at $500,000, but both spouses want to sell at $525,000, I may be a little bit worried about how that appraises when a buyer comes with financing. So I will get a floor. Let's say they both tell me they don't want to sell lower than $500,000. I can disclose that information in the contract so I don't waste my time. In the additional terms, I would say something like, "Buyer and seller agree that seller won't sell under a certain price." Obviously the legal wording is way different; I'm just dumbing it down for the purpose of this conversation. But I will put something like that, so the buyer can prepare himself, financially, in case the appraisal comes in at $500,000. They will either have to come up with the difference or ask for a loan of some sort, but they already knew that lower than $500,000, the property is not going to sell. So, a very good question. Yes, I've had situations like that all the time.

Fair market value reports

Regina Campbell: Okay, great. So, any other tips you can give us out here? I know you help attorneys, and I'm sure attorneys are listening. You've described a little bit how you call them up: "I'm having this difficulty. Can you help me with the other side?" Do attorneys ever use you in a different capacity? I know about fair market value, but do they use you as a neutral? Or do the parties just agree to use you, in which case you're sort of a neutral by default, even though you're not appointed as a neutral in the court system, right?

Pablo Gomez: Correct. So we spoke about fair market value, which I am trained in. Sorry, I'm getting my words mixed here. With my special training, when I do a fair market value report, it's a report that you can show in court. Let's say both parties don't really agree on the price, which is a big thing in divorce. They never agree. Typically the person who doesn't want to sell the house may say, "Oh, I will only sell for $800,000," but the property is worth like 400. That's typically how it happens.

My report is not a comparative market analysis like any realtor's. My report is a fair market value report that I'm trained to testify to as a neutral expert. An appraisal can be very costly, and it may take up to a week or two weeks sometimes to receive on a property, depending on the size of the property. My fair market value reports are typically super quick. We're talking about 24 to 48 hours for me to get it back to you. And once I present that report, it's a factual report based on comparables. I will explain the condition of every single property, and if I have the chance to do a walkthrough of that home, I will testify to that. I am trained to testify on that report in case I do get subpoenaed by the court.

Regina Campbell: Okay, wow, wonderful. Good to know it's possible, and it helps the attorneys and family law practitioners out there to do that as well, and the things that can be done, because this is an unusual area. But it happens. The reality is that it does happen in family law often. So, fantastic. Do you have any other tips for us, any things we can learn from your experience and your expertise?

A resource for family law attorneys

Pablo Gomez: Definitely. I would like to also add the way that I help attorneys and my family law community, because I'm not only a realtor who sells the property. I also consider myself a resource to my family law attorneys, and there are three ways that I typically help my family law community.

One of them is education. I always want my family law attorneys to be superstars, to be on top of the game, to know not only the law they practice but to know about real estate as well. Because let's face it, when you do family law, real property will come up at some point. You may have a question, or one of your clients may ask you, "Should I do a buyout or should I sell the house?" All those questions. Unless you are breathing and living the real estate market, you may not have the answers to those questions right away. That's where I come in. I keep you informed of the real estate market as it pertains to the family law community, and I do this in three ways.

Number one, I will send you an email. I do have a list, and I sit down at my computer and prepare it. It's very nice. This is more real-life information, real cases currently happening, and I just share information, let's say what we spoke about with restraining orders, or fair market values, or interest rates going up and down, stuff like that, that you can read and always have at your disposal whenever you need it. The second thing I do is send a newsletter every quarter. This is more broad information when it comes to real estate, and I share how the current market is constantly changing.

The third way I educate my family law attorneys is that I'm a sponsor of a CLE program called Raising the Bar. I do this the fourth Wednesday of every month, and it's typically an expert in a field. Last year we did the importance of valuing a business when it comes to divorce. That's also very important to know, very interesting information. It's not always real estate, but we get experts to teach about their fields.

So number one was education. Now, the second thing I do is that I am a resource. I'm a phone call away. If you have a property that comes across your desk and you need a lien search, or you need a title search, or you need to know the legal description of a property, number one, you can call me. I'm always a phone call away. Or I have developed a website called SoFlo Divorce Real Estate, like South Florida: SoFloDivorceRealEstate.com. That website is backed up by family law attorneys, title agents, real estate attorneys and lenders. So whatever you need, I can get it to you within 24 to 48 hours, any information about any property.

And I'd ask you, I know you're typically the one asking the questions, but have you ever had a case where you need information on a property and it takes a really long time?

Regina Campbell: It can. It depends on the information I need and how easy it is to find. But often, not just in my family practice but on the corporate and civil practice side also, information about a property can become necessary, right? I can do public searches for recorded documents. I can try to see if there are any permits, things of that nature. But sometimes there's also information I want to see, like whether it has been listed or not, where it's been at. It still takes me a while to look, right, because it's not something I'm doing every day.

Pablo Gomez: Correct. So I always say, sometimes you'll send me an email: "Hey, Pablo, has this property been listed? Has it expired?" Or, "Can you send me a lien search on this property? I want to know if there's anything affecting title." I can get you stuff like that in real time, because we have tools. I'm a realtor. We pay our fees every single year to have those things accessible to us, because it helps us get property sold faster. So that's one of the things I do, and one of the most important things, being a resource. I always want to say that it's not always about the money. It's sometimes about helping and creating that relationship and that trust. I always say I'm a phone call away. Have me on speed dial. Whatever you need on a property, it's done.

I want to add to that as well. We did speak about fair market values, and that's a report. But I can also give you a desktop fair market value, and I can get that to you within hours, so you can know the value of a property and make a decision as fast as you need to. Those I typically do not testify to, just because I did not walk the property. I don't know if the property has any repairs...

Regina Campbell: Or an analysis with certain methodologies and so forth, right?

Pablo Gomez: Right, correct. I want to make sure the property is in good condition, and when I do my walkthroughs, I take pictures and videos, both for my records and because it helps me give you a more accurate value.

Neutrality and high-conflict personalities

Pablo Gomez: And the last thing I would like to talk about today, and if you have any other questions, obviously you can always ask, is that my listing model is completely different from any other realtor's. I'm trained to handle high-conflict personalities, and I am also trained to handle, let's say, restraining orders, when there's a dangerous situation or a domestic violence situation. I am trained to handle those conflicts. My job is to take away the minutiae of the real estate part of your cases. I do this by being able to handle things like showings, open houses, what offer we should accept, or terms in a contract. You shouldn't be worried about stuff like that. That is what I'm trained to do, and the more I can take off your plate, that's what I'm there for. And I will always communicate with you on your cases at all points in time, so you will not find out from your clients what's going on. You will always know what's going on in your cases, but I won't be bothering you with certain stuff, because I'm trained to handle most conflicts.

As well, I abide by a completely different code of ethics. In my real estate world, double-ending a deal, meaning representing the buyer and the seller, is completely normal and completely allowed. But I'm not interested in that in a divorce case. I keep an arm's length in every transaction, and I'm not interested in being an investor or representing the buyer, because it is my job to make sure that I am a neutral party in the transaction and that I sell the property as fast as possible for the highest value possible, so the case can move on.

Regina Campbell: Okay, that's very important. And honestly, dealing with high-conflict or difficult personalities is an art in itself. Often, if you have that objective person who's really not involved, who's not the other person's lawyer and not your lawyer, who you're sometimes happy with but could also be angry with over the circumstances, or just for voicing opinions, then there's someone somewhat more objective in the middle. Hopefully that can take some of the sting out, and usually they're not going to fight as much. In divorce cases, I do have cases where people have fought with the neutrals and sued the neutrals and everything. But for the most part, you're the more objective party. You're not going to get the ire of the person in the same way as the ex-wife or ex-husband, or soon-to-be ex-wife or ex-husband, or their attorney. So I imagine that's usually helpful, and you know how to disarm people like that and deal with them, not take it personally, and get it done. Because that's what it is. It's personalities, and that's how you deal with them.

Pablo Gomez: Yeah. It's very simple to get involved. When the wife may come to you and tell you stuff like, "I hate him," or "He did this, he did that," it's very, very easy to give your opinion, to give your bias. It's very simple to do that, and it takes a unique expertise to be able to detach yourself from the transaction and understand that you are there to do one job, and that one job is to get the property sold as fast as possible. As long as you have that clear... It's not that you don't want to show empathy. You are always going to show empathy. But there's a fine line that you can't pass, because the moment you cross that line, you become a friend or you become a therapist instead of being the realtor.

Regina Campbell: And the neutral.

Pablo Gomez: And the neutral, which is important. You don't want to run into a situation where someone says your interest is not to get the property sold. That's why I always say, "I'm a neutral party. I'm sorry, I understand the situation. I apologize that you're in this situation. Okay, let's move on. We have this offer, so let's work."

Regina Campbell: Because ultimately, if your bias is also called into question, the whole process takes longer. They attack your report, your findings, everything. It takes longer, it costs more, and it's just not getting done either. So even from a purely practical point of view, that's what a neutral has to do. A neutral cannot take sides. So I guess that's part of the specialized training you have, to be able to handle it, because it's easy to get involved.

Pablo Gomez: Oh yeah, definitely. We had a case study, not a case study, a role play, the other day. Let's say you're running through the title work with the party selling, and you find out that the husband took out a HELOC, or took out a second mortgage against the house. So the wife is ballistic. She was going to net, let's say, $200,000 with the sale of her home, and now it's way less. Let's say she's only going to net $50,000, not even enough to pay the attorney or buy anything. That changes the whole entire thing. How do you handle that?

As humans, the first thing we do is, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry." But what happens when you say "I'm sorry" too many times is that the blame starts channeling toward you when you have nothing to do with it. So we always say: acknowledge the situation, apologize for the situation, and ask if you should continue. Because you have a goal. If you're having a conversation with a person, you have a goal. Ask if you should continue, or if you should circle back in a couple of days, stuff like that. That's how we handle that. I'll be honest: when we did that role play for the first time, I failed completely, because being Hispanic, my immediate reaction is, "No, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry." And that's not the right way to do it.

Regina Campbell: Yeah. You feel bad. You're like, "Oh my goodness," about the news this person just got.

Pablo Gomez: Exactly.

Closing

Regina Campbell: Yeah. Well, this has been really, really helpful. Thank you.

Pablo Gomez: Yes, absolutely.

Regina Campbell: Do you have any other tips for us, or anything you can think of where you might be of assistance for our audience?

Pablo Gomez: No, I just want to say, Ms. Regina, thank you so much for having me here. It is an honor and a pleasure. I've spent the whole entire week being so excited for this. It may not be a big deal or anything like that, but for me it is. Anytime I can get in front of an attorney and have a good conversation, whether it goes a long way or it doesn't, it's a plus for me. So I just want to thank you. I don't know if I should say this, but if you want to find me on social media, you can find me on Instagram as The Gomez Group. That's my little handle. And if there are any attorneys who watch this in the future, please give me a call for whatever you need. I do lunch and learns: I sit down with your staff and do the same kind of thing we did here. I can do it at your office. I provide lunch, and we can have a good conversation. Whatever you guys need, I'm here to help.

Regina Campbell: Great. Glad to have you. It's such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming on our show as well. We're very grateful. You have a unique set of expertise, and hopefully my audience is also enjoying it and learning a lot, and learning about you as well. And if anyone ever needs anything and cannot find you for any reason on the internet, call us and we'll give you Mr. Gomez's number. Thank you very, very much. It's been so wonderful. I'm glad you're excited. We're always excited to have speakers, and it's nice to talk to people too. We appreciate you coming on the show very much. Gracias.

Pablo Gomez: Gracias.

Regina Campbell: So, for all our viewers out there, we want to thank you again for joining us. Stay tuned for our next podcast, which will be announced soon, along with the guest we're going to have. And of course, if you missed any of our prior podcasts, by all means go visit YouTube or Apple Podcasts, and you can see them. We hope you also become subscribers, and follow us on our social media accounts as well. It's a pleasure, and everyone have a wonderful afternoon. Thank you. Take care.