The Campbell Corner Podcast – Paul Garcia (S1:E4)

Transcript

Host: Regina M. Campbell, Esq., The Campbell Law Group (TCLG)

Guest: Paul A. Garcia, CPA, forensic accountant

Introduction

Regina Campbell: Hi, welcome back to The Campbell Corner. I'm your host and principal attorney, Regina Campbell from The Campbell Law Group. And it's my pleasure today to introduce to you our rockstar accountant from South Florida, Paul Garcia. Good morning.

Paul Garcia: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me.

Regina Campbell: Thank you for coming. First I want to thank you for coming, as I know it's also tax season and you must be incredibly busy.

Paul Garcia: Yeah, we just finished tax season, actually, October 15th, but there are always lingering tax returns and lingering things at the office. It's never ending.

Regina Campbell: Yes, I know how you feel, and I know I'm often told, "Regina, did you get that in? Regina, did you get that in?" We're all guilty of it, and God bless our accountants that have a lot of patience with us, right? With the fines.

Paul Garcia: We need to have that, that's for sure.

Regina Campbell: And you guys are fantastic.

Paul Garcia: Thank you.

The accounting profession is booming

Regina Campbell: So how is the world of accounting?

Paul Garcia: Well, the word that comes to mind when you're asking a question like that is booming. I think the profession is actually booming. Not only for the traditional firms that just do audits and tax returns, but for the specialized firms, boutique firms like my firm. We do tax returns and we have a tax practice, but we also do a lot of litigation support and forensic accounting services. It is just booming. And as you know, there's a potential tax reform that Washington is talking about that's just going to create more tax return questions, more need to go to your accountant to tax plan, and so forth. So the profession never stops.

I always tell my family members, and I used to tell my kids, but unfortunately neither of them went into my world: I have an attorney and one in the medical field, and the other one is a music person. But anyway, I always tell my colleagues and my friends, "Listen, think about getting into the accounting profession, because you always have a job. You'll always be busy, and it's a very honorable profession."

Regina Campbell: I agree. I work with so many accountants. I've worked with you for years, and I find it's helpful in every aspect of someone's life, from their business to their personal lives. And I like numbers, you know me. Numbers tell a story of their own.

Paul Garcia: Absolutely. And you do like numbers, and you're one of the few attorneys who actually understands numbers. Attorneys focus in on the law, but some of them have a financial background, and that combination of knowing the law and the numbers... if I paint the financial painting for you guys, you understand it and you go with it, and it's really good.

Numbers in divorce cases

Regina Campbell: Yeah, and I think sometimes it's easier for litigants and clients when you show them numbers. They're confused. They're not always as savvy with accounting or finances. You show them what the numbers say, the story that it paints, and often it actually helps people go, "Okay, you know what, maybe we need to think about this and do this." And it's a way to get through what can be difficult emotional conversations, particularly in divorces, right? So, you know me, I love numbers.

Paul Garcia: Yeah, the financial painting, especially in divorces, is very important. It kind of sets the tone. Divorces are sometimes all about... you've got children's issues and psychological issues and all the intangibles. And then you throw in the financial aspect of the case, and it's just an atomic bomb, right? So I try in my divorce cases, Regina, to just make it as simple as possible, paint the picture, and make it so that they have one less problem, right?

Regina Campbell: Yes. And I think you do a great job. In some of the cases we've had together, you also make sure people understand what they're actually getting after the fact, because not every asset is the same. Cash is cash.

Paul Garcia: Right.

Regina Campbell: We can understand its value, its present-day value, so to speak. But what does a business mean? Does it have any tax implications when you go to sell it down the road, or other issues? What are the capital gains if one party gets the asset versus another?

Paul Garcia: Right. It is one thing to divide assets now, equitably. It's another thing to ask, "Okay, what are you going to do with the assets that you're getting in the divorce? How are they going to be producing for you? What are you going to be depending on? What is the income flow? What is the tax implication? What is the value of that asset going forward?" So it's a lot of stuff. That's what I do. It's one of the specialties of my office, which I started about 30 years ago or so. There aren't a lot of us in town who specialize in what we do, but we all get along and we're very busy.

Teaching judges and working through the pandemic

Regina Campbell: Yes. And I know you're also very busy with the courts. You also help the judges understand financial issues, and attorneys as well.

Paul Garcia: Yes, we do. I established a nice rapport with the judges many, many years ago, and it's continuing. I teach them some financial concepts, and we have seminars for them, and they're very appreciative. The way the system works, they rotate the judges. So you may have a new judge coming in from criminal who may not have a financial background. Family law in itself is not easy: understanding some of the rules and the laws and the statutes. And you throw in some financial concepts, and it's tough for them. So I try to teach them, and let them know at the very least the general concepts. I'm allowed to talk to them, and they call me, and I've even set up seminars for them in my office and in the court system. We also do lunch and learns for them with some of my colleagues. So yeah, we do that all the time.

Regina Campbell: That's why we call you the rockstar accountant.

Paul Garcia: No, no, no. I'm far from that. I just have experience.

Regina Campbell: And a lot of gray hair.

Paul Garcia: And a lot of gray hairs from the experience.

Regina Campbell: So I want to ask you also: how has the pandemic affected your firm?

Paul Garcia: Logistically, probably like every other firm. At first, we were dealing with something new in the world. I was kind of scared about getting sick, and getting other people sick. So there were a lot of protocols in the office at first, with the masks, and obviously clients not seeing people in the office. We had a couple of scares here and there with my staff. Nothing major. Luckily, no one has gotten sick. We're all vaccinated. So from that aspect, listen, we have to do that. We have to deal with it, right? It's gotten better.

But from a business perspective, I'll be honest with you, it hasn't affected the firm at all on the tax compliance side. It's fine. Everybody has to file returns, and everybody needs accountants and CPAs. Litigation support is the one that has been logistically affected. Why? Because we have to do it on Zoom now. Instead of in-person hearings or trials, we have Zoom mediations. They take longer. We have to plan for them a little bit more. You have to show your analytics on the screen now. You have to be proficient in Zoom. At first I didn't know how to work that thing. Now I'm a Zoom expert like everybody else. I imagine you guys here too.

So yeah, it's been a little bit of a challenge, but guess what? Everybody, I think, has gotten used to it. And I think some of the hearings, the non-evidentiary type hearings, I want to continue on Zoom. You save traffic time. It's going to be cost-effective for the clients. And motion calendars: I don't think we're going to have motion calendars anymore in life. So it's been a challenge, but it's okay. I'm fine with it now.

Regina Campbell: It's a matter, I think, of adaptation, resilience, just being dynamic. And I think that's where most people have done really well. It sounds like you've done well.

Paul Garcia: Yeah, you meet the problem head-on and you move on. You can sit back and feel sorry for yourself: "Oh, this pandemic, oh, this thing, this and that."

Regina Campbell: Absolutely.

Paul Garcia: We can do the best that we can. That's it.

Collaborative divorce

Regina Campbell: Wonderful. So we're going to talk a little bit about collaborative divorces. For people who do not know what that is, it's a different type of divorce that exists in Florida, and it's basically outside the court system. It's designed to bring in a combination of different professionals, from accountants to therapists to lawyers, to try to tone down the litigation, and maybe some of the negative rhetoric, so to speak, behind litigation, and deal with things in a more collaborative manner that's healthier for families. Mr. Garcia is actually part of a collaborative group, and he's one of the accountants. I wanted him to talk a little bit about what he does.

Paul Garcia: Right. So the collaborative process started in the state of Florida, I want to say, about 10 years ago, but it became part of the Florida statutes approximately two years ago. It uses a team concept to try to settle a divorce case out of court, so the court system doesn't enter the process. And you have a team approach. What do I mean by that? You have one financial professional, you have one mental health professional, and you have two attorneys representing the parties.

The way it works is that we have meetings and sessions, collaborative sessions, throughout the process. It's a transparent process. Without transparency, it does not work. There are many other protocols that the process has. And if you follow the protocols and go through the process, 90-some-odd percent (I've forgotten the actual percentage now) of the cases that begin in the collaborative process end up in a settlement. Very few cases... I've had two cases in my career, and I've done a lot of collaborative cases, that have gone from collaborative to litigation without settling.

So I'm very active in that process. I teach it. We have training sessions. Now we have accreditation of collaborative professionals. I'm one of the few financial professionals in the state of Florida who are accredited in this area. I think there are only about four of us. I try to push it a lot. As more attorneys get trained in the process and know about it, I think it's going to be a very good alternative to the litigated cases.

Regina Campbell: I'm part of the collaborative group as well, because I believe in it. I believe in that approach. It's usually much healthier for families to go that direction. Litigation is usually reserved, or seems to be, like you're saying, for the few cases that are so contentious. And there are usually mental health issues going on there that can't be helped.

Paul Garcia: They can be helped. You'd be surprised. I always say this to clients: every case could be a collaborative case, regardless of how contentious the issues are, whether they're big financial cases, small financial cases, big children's issues. It doesn't matter. The collaborative concept can work in any case.

Regina Campbell: Yes. And I think it helps, because sometimes we take that approach anyway, even in cases that are in court. We bring in a parenting therapist, we bring in a family therapist, we bring in a forensic accountant. But in a collaborative approach, you're starting off with professionals who already believe in the process. You have certain protocols and processes in place. And it's clear to the client from the beginning: this is transparency. You can't say, "I want to hide this. I want to put this under the table."

Paul Garcia: It's one of the top protocols. You sign off on it. It doesn't work if somebody's hiding anything, if somebody's playing games with discovery, because I'm the coordinator, let's say, of the discovery process. The financial neutral is the person who handles the discovery. If you don't give me the discovery, it just doesn't work.

Regina Campbell: Correct. It doesn't work. And ultimately, when you're in court, people will play games with hiding discovery. You've got motions to compel. The costs are just astronomical. And ultimately, it's going to come out.

Paul Garcia: It's going to come out. So you might as well just put your cards on the table. Let's see what we've got here. Then you have the battle of the forensics: two forensic accountants against each other, thinking, "Oh, well, I need this." "Well, you don't need that." And then the process just... you know how it is.

Regina Campbell: Yes, I do know how it is.

Paul Garcia: Which is why I do suggest the collaborative approach.

Regina Campbell: Absolutely. I'm all for it too.

Giving back

Regina Campbell: Wonderful. I also know you're very involved in philanthropy. You're a trustee of St. Thomas University.

Paul Garcia: Yeah. Trustee of St. Thomas University.

Regina Campbell: Yes. You're involved with the Marian Center and also Kidside.

Paul Garcia: Yeah. Listen, you have to give back.

Regina Campbell: Yes. You have to give back.

Paul Garcia: I'm a Cuban refugee. And if I hadn't gotten the help that I got from those charities when I came to this country, I wouldn't be here. So I'm a firm believer that we have to give back to society. My schedule sometimes makes it very difficult, but somehow we manage it. Somehow I manage to function as a trustee of St. Thomas University. I now lead the finance committee of the university. It's a pretty big job.

Regina Campbell: Yeah, I was going to say.

Paul Garcia: And I'm also active in Kidside, which is a great organization in the court system that targets underprivileged kids whose parents are going through a divorce. Supervised visitation and other services are provided to the underprivileged kids going through the divorce. And then you mentioned the Marian Center, which is a wonderful place for children with mental disabilities, children with Down syndrome. For example, my brother-in-law went to that school for 20-some-odd years. He had Down syndrome. He passed away. You go into that school, and it's run by nuns, and they just take your heart away.

So those are my three major charities that I'm involved in. St. Thomas is the one that takes a lot of my time, but frankly, it's the one currently giving me a lot of satisfaction, to be honest with you. Education is very important.

Regina Campbell: Yeah. I'm all for education.

Paul Garcia: St. Thomas has 4,500 kids on campus and about another 1,200 off campus. We have a tremendous law school.

Regina Campbell: Yes.

Paul Garcia: And it's very active. It's growing. We're private, so we're competing with the public school systems. And sometimes it's all about budgeting and grants and increasing our reserves and contributions. So it's an interesting world. It keeps me very busy outside of my practice, but I really enjoy it.

Regina Campbell: I'm glad.

Paul Garcia: I really, really enjoy it.

Regina Campbell: It's really important that you give back. So many people don't give back, and then they realize it's actually really hard.

Paul Garcia: Got to give back. I came here when I was 5 years old and I was helped out. So I have that sense of responsibility to give back to this country.

Regina Campbell: Yes. And you can only imagine sometimes the difficulty people are in. Like you said, underprivileged children, whose parents may not be able to afford therapy, or potentially drug treatment, or anything of that nature.

Paul Garcia: Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, who suffers? The children, right? The children suffer.

Regina Campbell: So Kidside targets the children?

Paul Garcia: Yes, going through that unfortunate divorce period. So we try to accommodate them. Kidside has a lot of functions. We raise money for the charity. I was president at one time. Now I just sit on the board, and they have great board members and a lot of activities. It's wonderful.

Regina Campbell: That's wonderful. And then the Marian Center. So many people don't have an understanding of what Down syndrome is, or what kind of help the person or the children may need. So it's really good to bring light to that. Maybe people can learn about it and understand it more, and maybe help donate money to the center as well.

Paul Garcia: They also treat children with other mental disabilities, children on the spectrum, for example, and other types of disabilities. They have wonderful teachers, wonderful concepts. They went through a rough period during COVID like everybody else, but they're back. I actually encourage people to go visit them. It's around the airport in Opa-locka, right next to it. They have a beautiful campus, and it's awesome.

Regina Campbell: So we'll get the information so we can put it up on the podcast, if anyone wants to look into the Marian Center or Kidside, or St. Thomas as a university, which is a fantastic university. We'll have the information on the podcast so that you can look into it.

What drives him and who influenced him

Regina Campbell: Something I wanted to bring up: I always like to know what drives you. What's your passion?

Paul Garcia: What drives me? Wow, that's a great question. At this stage of my life, I guess: serving people. Serving people through my training, through what I do for a living, and by giving them my life's experience. My faith is very important too, and helping promote my faith. It's a combination of everything. Life is a journey, and I'm 63. So at this stage of my life, I think I have a lot of experience to give back. I guess that's my driving force. Stay healthy, you know, it's important.

It's funny, I told my kids that I feel like I'm in the fourth quarter of the football game.

Regina Campbell: Oh goodness. Well, hopefully at the beginning.

Paul Garcia: At 60. And I think at 70, maybe the last two minutes of the football game.

Regina Campbell: No, no, no.

Paul Garcia: But you never know. But anyway, that's what drives me right now: applying life's experiences and what I've learned to everyone, in my profession, my friends.

Regina Campbell: And it sounds like you want to help people get through it, understand it, in any way that you can.

Paul Garcia: Yeah.

Regina Campbell: So I'd like to ask this question, especially with successful people: who is the person who has most influenced you in your life?

Paul Garcia: Wow. That's an incredible question. I wish the question would be, who are the two? Who are the two or more influential people in your life? Because frankly, I think I have two.

Regina Campbell: Okay. Do tell.

Paul Garcia: So I'm an only child, and my mom was very, very close to me and very special. She came to this country alone with me. My father was a political prisoner in Cuba, so he stayed behind. He came later on. I think we were here maybe 10 years or so, and then he was able to get out of jail in Cuba and come over. But she was everything. She was a mom. She was a dad, with a five-year-old kid in New York City.

Regina Campbell: A new country.

Paul Garcia: A new country. She got a lot of help from her brothers and sisters, but she was a provider. She was a hard worker, a woman of faith. She was a giver. I think that's where I get my giving aspect, giving back. She struggled a lot, not knowing the language, working in factories, and just making it happen. So she was my role model. Then my father came, and they set up a business together, and the business flourished for 40 years. She helped my dad. My dad was a nurseryman. So I saw my mom through all those stages, and she was my hero, to be honest with you.

Then I have to give the simultaneous one to, I think everybody knows, my wife. People say that I don't function without her, and people are probably right. And it's funny, because people say that in case I ever get a divorce, which is very unlikely after 41 years of marriage, right, I probably would not find an attorney in this town who would represent me, because they would want to represent my wife. That's how much people like her. She's the office manager, but she does a lot of things in the office. She holds the family together. She's a woman of faith. She's a hard worker, very smart. She juggles a lot of stuff. She's really my second hero too.

Regina Campbell: I love that. Just recently, Colin Powell, General Powell, passed, and one of his last interviews came out, with Mr. Woodward. He was asked a similar question, and it was his wife. Out of all the leaders and presidents and people he'd been around, whom he admired as well and gave a lot of accolades, it was his wife. That was his rock.

Paul Garcia: She's been there through thick and thin. She was there when I started my practice in 1985. She helped me. She was working, and then, four or five years after I started it, once I started getting busy, she jumped in with me. It's not easy to work with your wife, right?

Regina Campbell: Yeah, no, it cannot be easy.

Paul Garcia: Well, we've managed it for, whatever, 30 years. She has her duties. Her office is at one end of the office, and mine is on the other end. She's wonderful.

Regina Campbell: Yeah, she is.

Paul Garcia: You all know her, and everybody loves my wife. More than me.

Regina Campbell: No, no, no. Actually, you guys are two different personalities, you know what I mean? But you're both wonderful.

Paul Garcia: Yeah, we do have different personalities. She's my second hero.

Regina Campbell: I love that. Wonderful to hear. So, two women.

Paul Garcia: Two women.

Regina Campbell: You have an American story.

Paul Garcia: Well, I have a story.

Regina Campbell: You definitely have a story.

A passion for golf

Regina Campbell: So, actually, your wife specifically told me to be careful with this question, and maybe to limit the time for the answer. What is it with you and your love of golf?

Paul Garcia: Listen, for many, many years... I was a baseball player growing up, a basketball player, even though I'm short, growing up in New York. I played a lot of contact sports. I viewed golf as a game for sissies, right? Are you kidding me? Who's going to play golf? But let me tell you, about 25, 30 years ago, when I started playing golf, it really changed my mind about the game.

It is a very challenging game. It's a game of discipline, basically. It's a game that requires practice, flexibility. It's challenging. People say, "Well, you don't sweat on the golf course." Really? You sweat on the golf course. You get a workout on the golf course.

Regina Campbell: Yes, yes. Especially if you walk.

Paul Garcia: Yeah. It's a game where, when you think you have it down pat, it'll kick you in the butt. And so I'm always learning it. I'm down to a good handicap. I want to see if I can lower it even more. I've never gotten a hole in one, and I'd like to be a single-digit player. I'm almost there. So those are my goals now for the future. I try to play as much as I can. I play twice a week, and I wish I could play more. It's a passion. Golf is a passion. I also like basketball and other sports, but golf is my passion.

Regina Campbell: It's amazing. Everyone who plays golf regularly... Of course you want to, and that's the frustration.

Paul Garcia: Yes. It looks easy, but it's not that easy.

Regina Campbell: It's not easy. Everyone talks about golf with a level of respect, of intensity in their eyes. Sort of like, "I'm looking at myself in the mirror."

Paul Garcia: It's me. It's a head game as well. And I also forgot to mention something important that attracted me to golf: integrity. It's got rules, regulations. It challenges you, in the sense of, do you want to nudge the ball here and there? If you're really true to the game, you stick to it. You don't use that eraser when you're marking down your scores. You don't move the ball when you have a bad lie. You don't do all sorts of things. The focus and the integrity aspect of golf obviously go hand in hand with my profession. So that's why I like it too.

Regina Campbell: Perfect. It's good to hear. I was warned to be careful with that question.

Paul Garcia: Well, I can keep on talking about it.

Closing

Regina Campbell: Well, I want to thank you very much for coming in.

Paul Garcia: My pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. You are a great attorney.

Regina Campbell: Thank you.

Paul Garcia: I'll say it: I think you are an up-and-coming star.

Regina Campbell: Thank you. Look who's talking about being a star.

Paul Garcia: The star is really you, Regina.

Regina Campbell: I hope so. It's been a while since I've seen you, so it's great to see you. And I'm glad you're healthy and everyone is doing fine.

Paul Garcia: Thank you very much. And same here. I wish you the best.

Regina Campbell: Thank you. It's been a pleasure to be with Mr. Garcia. We want to thank everyone for watching this episode. This is episode four, and if you've missed any of the prior episodes, please go back and take a look at them, and keep an eye out for our future interviews. I think you'll enjoy every single one of them. Hopefully this has been helpful, and you get to know me and my guests more. I think it's important that people get to know people in the community, professionals: what they go through in their lives, what their passions are.

So I also want to encourage everyone to please follow us on our social media accounts. We're new to TikTok. Very exciting. We're going to have a little bit of fun with that. Also, subscribe to our podcast and our YouTube channel, and we look forward to seeing you in the next episode. Thank you so very much, everybody, and Mr. Garcia, for coming.

Paul Garcia: You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me.