The Campbell Corner Podcast – Janine Kucaba (S1:E8)

Transcript

Host: Regina M. Campbell, Esq., The Campbell Law Group (TCLG)

Guest: Janine Kucaba, estate planning and probate attorney

Introduction

Regina Campbell: I'm Regina Campbell, the principal attorney here at The Campbell Law Group. And I want to welcome everyone back for episode 8, sorry, season... oh, it is episode 8, season 1. The recorder is giving me the look, so sorry. We want to welcome today fabulous estate planning and probate attorney Janine Kucaba. Welcome.

Janine Kucaba: Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

Regina Campbell: Yes, absolutely. Thank you for coming. So before we get started with the legal stuff, I hear you have an interesting background. Or shall I say, a Miami potpourri? What would you say?

Janine Kucaba: Yeah, I think so. I would call myself the Miami potpourri. I don't really call myself a Miami mutt, because potpourri sounds better. But I guess I epitomize Miami culture. My mother is Colombian. She came here when she was 29 years old. And my father was Polish, from Philadelphia.

And to continue that part, my father was in World War II. He was the son of Polish immigrants, so first-generation American. After World War II, he was able to go to school on the GI Bill. My mom also came here after going to law school for a couple of years in Cali, Colombia. She decided that she wanted to live the American life and have a different life than what was probably expected of her in Colombia.

So she came all by herself at 29 with her savings in her hand, took a year of English and ended up working as a paralegal here in Miami. Then my parents ended up meeting each other, and here I am. I'm the product.

Regina Campbell: I like that. Great product too, by the way. So that's interesting, and it's not just American, it's so Miami. And I think we're seeing this more and more, right? We have immigrants coming from different parts, starting a generation or two ago, down to the newer generations, and they continued the dream, so to speak. Your mother clearly did.

Janine Kucaba: I think so. She came here... that's how you know she was a lawyer. She did two years of law school and then she worked for a magistrate, a judge in Colombia. And then she's like, "Ah, no, I think I want to try something else." But I'm basically living it. I accomplished what she wanted to accomplish.

Regina Campbell: That's what I was going to say. That's where the law comes from, I guess.

Janine Kucaba: Yes. A legal background.

What probate is

Regina Campbell: So talk to me a little bit about probate. People don't know exactly what probate is.

Janine Kucaba: I'm glad you're asking that question. A lot of people have preconceived notions. They've heard things, they've read on the internet and whatnot. I do estate planning and probate, and the estate planning side is really the way to try to avoid probate. So what's probate? It's a court-supervised proceeding in the probate division of the courthouse.

In that proceeding, you appoint a personal representative to deal with the decedent's assets. That person collects the assets, pays any debts of the decedent prior to death, and also distributes the assets to the beneficiaries.

Regina Campbell: Okay. But the courts are also there to make sure the will is... I mean, if someone wants to contest the will or something of that nature, that's where you usually do it, right? The probate court.

Janine Kucaba: Right. So there's the administrative side: formal administration and summary administration. Those are the two types of probate. If it becomes a litigation matter, then it becomes an adversary proceeding within the probate court. But I don't do that side. My partners do that. I do the administrative side of probate.

Regina Campbell: Gotcha. And you have a background also in tax, correct? Also for the estate planning?

Janine Kucaba: Yeah, I have an LL.M. from the University of Miami in estate planning and tax. It kind of supplements my business degree from the University of Florida. I have to give a shout-out to Rick, because if not, Rick is going to give me a face back there. So yeah, I have a couple of degrees from the University of Florida, and I got my LL.M. in estate planning after I went to law school at the University of Florida.

Estate planning is not just for the wealthy

Regina Campbell: Okay, wonderful. And I think there's a misconception about estate planning. Of course, like you said, estate planning is there to avoid intensive probate, which can be rather expensive, time-consuming and just overall difficult.

Janine Kucaba: Correct.

Regina Campbell: So do you think people have a misconception that estate planning is just for rich people, just the ultra wealthy? Of course, since you have the background in tax, there's obviously some thinking and consideration about passing on wealth to other generations in a tax-efficient way. But do you agree with that? That it's really just for the ultra wealthy?

Janine Kucaba: It's not. Everyone should at least have the basic documents, depending on what your assets are and what your family situation is. People say, "Oh, I have a will, I don't need to go through probate." That's one of the misconceptions, I would say. If you have a will and assets that are titled properly, that have designated beneficiaries, then you don't have a probate process. Everything will go directly to the beneficiaries, for example a bank account or an insurance policy.

If you don't have a complicated family, you have adult beneficiaries, and there are no minors and things that would complicate that, you can do a simple will with designated beneficiaries. Even if you do have a minor child, there are UTMA accounts that can be set up, a transfers to minors account. But keep in mind, and people are a little bit surprised by this, the child can get the money at 18 or 21, depending on the account. So if you have a million dollars in an account, you may not want your 18- or 21-year-old getting it.

Regina Campbell: Or 30.

Janine Kucaba: Correct. Getting that money outright. That's where you may want to have a trust set up for them.

Regina Campbell: Correct.

Janine Kucaba: Right. So a trustee would be able to control the distributions to kids who have asset protection issues: going through a divorce, creditors, drugs, things like that. Because unfortunately, families are not perfect.

Regina Campbell: No.

Janine Kucaba: Part of the estate planning process is really getting to know the families. A lot of them are blended families now: second marriages, kids from prior marriages and mutual kids with current spouses, and things like that. It's getting to know the kids, how old they are and what the issues are: if they have creditor issues, divorce issues, special needs, things like that, that need to be provided for.

Regina Campbell: Right. And it's really important. Like you said, with a UTMA, the child can potentially get the money at 18 or 21. That's not always a good thing, and we don't realize that. We think, okay, it's just money set aside for a child. So a trust allows you to set up who's going to make the decisions and make sure that child is taken care of the way he or she needs, and you can avoid a lot of creditor issues by avoiding distribution to the child.

So I think it's important. People think you have to have millions and millions of dollars to do this stuff, and it's not necessary. Especially if you have a special needs child also. They may not know how to enforce their rights or know what to do if something should happen. And maybe that child needs more money than another child.

Janine Kucaba: And normally, if they're receiving government benefits, they have to receive that money in trust, or they'll potentially be disqualified from the government benefits.

Regina Campbell: Correct. Okay, that's a very important fact as well.

Serving Spanish-speaking clients

Regina Campbell: So you're looking very American...

Janine Kucaba: I had to throw the Spanish out there. The Colombian.

Regina Campbell: Oh, you're kidding. Right, Rick? So for my Hispanic friends out there, she can help you as well.

Janine Kucaba: I do cater to a large Spanish-speaking population here, obviously, in Miami, so that's kind of how I differentiate myself also. A lot of estate planning attorneys don't speak Spanish.

Regina Campbell: They don't speak Spanish, and it's hard. Without that communication, that connection in their language, they potentially don't feel as comfortable in English.

Janine Kucaba: Right. So I found that helps too.

Regina Campbell: And I don't know how many times they're referred to a lawyer, I get on the phone, and Sofia will say, "Oh yeah, here's Regina Campbell," and they're on the phone, and they're like, "I speak Spanish," and I'm like, "Oh, you don't have to be scared at all."

Janine Kucaba: I have the same thing. The referrals that I do get from other attorneys, they're like, "Yeah, she speaks Spanish, there's no problem."

Regina Campbell: Yes, it is important to be able to speak someone's language. I think it makes people more comfortable. A lot of the time they do speak English too, but they prefer to speak in Spanish.

Janine Kucaba: And I think understanding some of the culture, some history and background, understanding where they're coming from, helps as well.

Regina Campbell: So having that kind of background, I think, helps.

Janine Kucaba: For sure.

Probate and planning after COVID

Regina Campbell: Let's talk a little bit about post-COVID, because that is a very interesting topic. How is the probate world post-COVID? What has COVID done to it?

Janine Kucaba: I think it's a good thing, because before, in the probate world, we had to physically go. During COVID, we did Zoom hearings when we had to have hearings. On the administrative side, it's all done online. You basically file everything, and I haven't had to go to the courthouse for anything, really, unless you have a contested hearing. And even then, a lot of it is still by Zoom or remote. Obviously the courthouse has opened up now, so there are some in-person hearings happening.

Regina Campbell: Do you see more people interested in doing wills now, or some kind of planning?

Janine Kucaba: During COVID, I think it was the busiest year I've had yet, because people had someone who passed away from COVID, and it really hit home for people that there's a risk there. "Oh, I have kids. I have to make sure that they're provided for if both parents pass away." And just being what I call responsible adults.

I always congratulate people when they sign their documents. I'm like, "How do you feel? Do you feel good? You feel like a responsible adult now?" They feel a sense of relief when they sign their documents.

Regina Campbell: And I can only imagine with COVID, more so. People worry about older parents who might have had difficulties, especially when they were at a distance, and then who takes care of them: powers of attorney. But so many times, the first question is, "Regina, my husband's memory is going really bad. We need to hurry up and do these documents." And it's like, well, wait a minute. You have to make sure he has the ability to understand them, that he hasn't lost competency to that extent. People are always surprised to hear that. But I think COVID made people think about these things more acutely.

Incapacity documents and hard decisions

Janine Kucaba: Yeah. And it's the basic estate planning documents, the will or the revocable trust, that come in handy. That's appropriate for most people; it just depends on your scenario. And there are also the disability documents that you touched upon. Those are the incapacity documents.

Regina Campbell: So it's death, and it's also incapacity while you're still alive.

Janine Kucaba: Yeah. The power of attorney does that: who's the person that can step into your shoes to deal with your affairs while you're still alive? The healthcare surrogate designation: who is the person that can sign the consent for medical procedures at the hospital? The living will is affiliated with the healthcare surrogate. It's the document that says these are the things that I do not want. If I'm in a vegetative state, or end-stage disease, this is what I do not want to have done to me medically.

Regina Campbell: So no feeding tube...

Janine Kucaba: No resuscitation.

Regina Campbell: Correct. Exactly right. And it's scary stuff, but I always think it's better. It's scary for parents and people to think about it, but imagine how scary it is for your children or someone else, or your siblings, to have to make these decisions not knowing how you feel.

Janine Kucaba: Right. Because it's at least better when you can say, "This is what I would like you to do." I'm taking the decision somewhat out of your hands.

Regina Campbell: So you don't have to feel guilty. One child says, "Leave them on the tube, leave them on the tube." The other child knows she's suffering. This is worse. In which case you give them some direction.

Janine Kucaba: Right. And I've had to deal with this personally, with my father. My mother's 91. And most people come to me like, "Oh, this is what I've dealt with in my family. Please, I want to make sure that I don't have the same situation happen to me. My parents never signed documents, and I'm in this situation now where I don't know what they want." So it makes everything easier, because then it's, "This is what I want. This is what I don't want." And it's on paper.

Regina Campbell: And you don't have a lot of siblings fighting about it.

Janine Kucaba: Correct.

Regina Campbell: Right. So that's the other thing: what if you do have children who don't get along, or who just think differently? One says, "Let it be, let it go," and the other says, "She could survive, she could get through." So it helps with that kind of dynamic to write it down. So the court goes, "Well, no, this is what she said she wanted," when she couldn't speak. And so many people fell into comas, right? They didn't realize they were going to go into it. They were put on a respirator. So it was important to have a lot of that spoken for ahead of time.

Janine Kucaba: In my world, it usually, unfortunately, comes down to a triggering event: "My parent is sick, someone passed away in my family, I just had a child, I just got married." Life-triggering events are when people usually come to see me, because then it becomes real for them. And they're like, "Oh, I need to be responsible," the responsible adults, as I call them, and just get their documents done.

Regina Campbell: It's pretty heavy, though, right?

Janine Kucaba: It's almost like I'm a therapist, I think, because who really wants to talk about death and taxes?

Regina Campbell: No. It's true. I can only imagine. You've got to ask these questions.

Janine Kucaba: So, if so-and-so cannot make a decision, who else do you want to make decisions about your health care? And do you want them to act together? And they look at you like, "Oh, that becomes real." And also with married couples: if you die first, this is what happens, and if both of you die, this is what happens. So they're like, "Oh, God."

Regina Campbell: Yeah. But it's something that has to be done.

Janine Kucaba: It has to be done, and you have to talk about it. If you're going to go through this process, these are the things you have to deal with, like it or not.

Regina Campbell: That's true. Like you said, death and taxes. At the end of the day you have to deal with those issues, but also incapacity, the things that happen in the blink of an eye. The reality.

Titling assets and keeping the plan current

Janine Kucaba: And the bottom line is, it's not only the documents, it's also the assets. So you have to look at the assets, how they're titled, and make sure that they're titled in a way, or have designated beneficiaries, that avoids the probate process. If my clients are going to go through this process and pay me for this, they need to have everything done.

Unfortunately, I try to keep up with my clients with updates: "Hey, if you acquire something, let's go through the assets." But sometimes things get missed, and then someone does pass away and it's, "Oopsie, this bank account, we haven't done it yet."

Regina Campbell: Yeah, so they forget 10 years later, and they're kind of like, "Oh, right."

Janine Kucaba: Right. So it's an ongoing process. It's not a one-and-done thing, especially for young couples that acquire assets, buy investment properties, real estate and things like that. It's an ongoing process.

Regina Campbell: I know. And you help with businesses too, because people don't think about it, but businesses are passed along as well, to the children or the spouse, or potentially to a partner. So sometimes there are operating agreements or buy-sell agreements that say, okay, when I pass, you have to buy out my interest, or you get the right of first refusal to get my interest before my family does, before my estate does. Because maybe I have a partner that doesn't want to do business with my family members as partners.

And since there's a stake, it's usually a high amount of money, and they don't even plan for that. That takes planning. Otherwise the business doesn't have the capital; they don't have the capacity.

Janine Kucaba: Yeah, that's usually done through insurance and things like that.

Regina Campbell: So you can help with all that.

Janine Kucaba: Yes.

Regina Campbell: Okay, wonderful to know. We're going to put up her information so you can get in touch with her.

Parkinson's and Moving Day

Regina Campbell: So you were talking a little bit before about your father, and I know that he had Parkinson's, right?

Janine Kucaba: He had Parkinson's for about 10 years.

Regina Campbell: 10 years? And you were involved with the foundation, right?

Janine Kucaba: I was. I've gotten a little busy, so I haven't been able to go back to that. But it's a wonderful organization. Nationwide, they have Moving Day events every year, where they raise money. It's a walk to raise money for Parkinson's.

Regina Campbell: I think they've actually done good things with the money, right? I think they've come up with some new... I guess not new testing, but new medicine, new things that are helping.

Janine Kucaba: New procedures. Surgeries in the brain, things like that. I forget what exactly they're called now, but from what I've been able to read about, it works pretty well. But still, it's an ongoing, difficult thing.

Regina Campbell: It's a difficult thing. But you're doing good work.

Janine Kucaba: Yeah, it's a wonderful organization. I was very proud to be part of it.

Influences and finding estate planning

Regina Campbell: Good. I also want to ask you something we usually ask everybody, successful people: who is the person that's influenced you the most in your life?

Janine Kucaba: Well, I would say my parents. My mom and dad both came from a humble background, and they were incredibly smart people. They always encouraged me toward education: you need to be an educated person; without education, you're nothing. That's the way to be successful. My mother was a person who came here by herself back when Miami was still Gringolandia.

Regina Campbell: Yeah.

Janine Kucaba: And she knew what she had to do, by herself. And unfortunately, there was a lot of discrimination.

Regina Campbell: Right, there was.

Janine Kucaba: And my dad too. He enlisted in the war voluntarily. I would ask him, "You really wanted to do this?" "Well, that was the only way that I was going to be able to go to college." So he went to the University of Pennsylvania on the GI Bill and went to dental school. And I basically looked at them and said, I really have no excuse not to become a successful person, because I've always looked up to those two people. And they said, "We did it to give you a better life."

Regina Campbell: Exactly. "We want you to have a better life."

Janine Kucaba: Right. And also another shout-out, for what I do now, doing estate planning. I started out doing litigation and realized that it was not for me. So shout-out to you for doing that, because I run the other direction every time litigation comes up, or I definitely refer it out to other people. I practiced that for a couple of years. And then I met Celeste Muir, now Judge Muir, at a University of Florida event.

Regina Campbell: My goodness, how she keeps throwing that in there.

Janine Kucaba: We're both crazy UF Gator people, so any opportunity I get... But anyway, I met her at a University of Miami... oh no, hello, what's wrong with me? A University of Florida event.

Regina Campbell: Oh, that was a bad slip.

Janine Kucaba: And we just started talking. Sorry, there are football fans around here.

Regina Campbell: I already know what football season must look like around here.

Janine Kucaba: So Judge Muir had a litigation background, and I was telling her that litigation probably wasn't for me. I was looking to do something else. I was open, and I was so young, and I wanted to explore some possibilities. And she said, "Hey, look into doing estate planning. If you like math, it's kind of like math. Try the estate planning program at UM, or the University of Florida, they have a great tax program."

So I looked into that, and my father was very sick, so I couldn't really leave to go to Gainesville for even a year. I ended up staying at UM. But UM was a wonderful program. It opened doors for me and gave me a good fundamental understanding of estate planning, tax and probate.

Regina Campbell: And that's unusual. I know a lot of people do planning and stuff like that, but to combine it with the master's in tax, I think that's a really important thing, because you can help people go beyond that when they do have those tax considerations, like how to transfer assets.

Janine Kucaba: A lot of people don't really realize how tax-based it is: estate tax, gift tax and income tax issues. So it definitely comes in handy as far as being able to give the clients a better understanding of those implications.

Regina Campbell: Yeah, in decision making, especially for companies too. I think that's something more complicated.

Janine Kucaba: Yeah. We have to have an understanding of tax, where we do work with the CPAs and the clients too. You have to be able to draft with the tax in mind.

Regina Campbell: Right, correct. Gotcha. So that's really fascinating.

Gators, Seminoles and closing

Regina Campbell: And I'm smiling because Ricardo is behind the camera. Gators, four of them. So I'm okay. Anything else you'd like to add, Rick? At one point we had an FSU associate here. This was a disaster. They were just fighting and joking, Gators and FSU, whenever they would play.

Janine Kucaba: No, I'm not a big fan of FSU.

Regina Campbell: Every year. UF is the one.

Janine Kucaba: Well, this year is going to be an interesting football season. I think UF has to be a little humble this year, so we'll see what happens.

Regina Campbell: And FSU is going to have to be humble this year too. These guys are awesome. They have so much fun with it. But I admire that. You guys are definitely very proud of your school and your football team.

Janine Kucaba: We are.

Regina Campbell: So I want to thank you so much for coming today. It was a pleasure to have you and to get more information. You have so much knowledge and experience, and a simple explanation of what our viewers want to know is important, and about yourself too.

Janine Kucaba: Thank you.

Regina Campbell: I think it's important to show where people come from, how this happens. It's important to support each other too.

Janine Kucaba: Yes, absolutely. And I think it's important for people to see that we all come from different backgrounds, and things are still so possible. We just have to set our minds to it.

Regina Campbell: Exactly.

Janine Kucaba: Well, thank you for having me.

Regina Campbell: Thank you for coming. A pleasure as always. So we want to encourage everyone... hopefully you liked this podcast. We're going to post her information if you'd like to get a hold of her. Also, we encourage everyone to follow us on our social media accounts and to become a subscriber to our podcast. So far the podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, so become a subscriber there. That'd be great. We are going to come on, hopefully, to Spotify and other platforms shortly. And I want to thank you again. Hope you have a wonderful day. Please come back and join us for our next podcast. Thank you.