The Campbell Corner Podcast – Cindy Luna (S1:E2)

Transcript

Host: Regina M. Campbell, Esq., The Campbell Law Group (TCLG)

Guest: Cindy Luna, Hollywood actor, assistant director, producer, entrepreneur and activist

Introduction

Regina Campbell: Hi, and welcome to The Campbell Corner. I'm Regina Campbell, and I'm your host and the principal attorney here at The Campbell Law Group. I want to thank everyone for joining us. This is episode two of season one, and I have the absolute pleasure of presenting to you, and having come visit us today, Hollywood actor (I'm supposed to call you actor, not actress), assistant director, producer, entrepreneur and activist Cindy Luna. Cindy, welcome.

Cindy Luna: Thank you. Thank you for that introduction. Expectations are super high now.

Regina Campbell: No pressure. No pressure at all. So I saw your resume, and it's very impressive. I checked out IMDb, and it looks like some of your work includes The Last Ship, Once Upon a Time...

Cindy Luna: Yeah.

Regina Campbell: My favorite. Still the King.

Cindy Luna: Yeah.

Regina Campbell: Castle, NCIS, right?

Cindy Luna: Yeah. And a whole bunch more.

Regina Campbell: Yes. You've been really busy.

Growing as an actor

Cindy Luna: I have. I feel like the past five years have been nonstop, before the pandemic. Every show has had its own flavor, its own lessons, growth and opportunities that have led to other opportunities. So I just feel really blessed and excited for what's to come next.

Regina Campbell: Very, very important. And it must be exciting to play different roles, right? You get to bring out different aspects of your abilities as an actor and jump into those roles. I assume that must be really interesting.

Cindy Luna: It's really interesting. And I think as you grow, and you know this as a woman, you get the opportunity to play these roles in different ways. For example, in Hollywood I started with a role that was just a younger girl, the daughter of a drug dealer. That was my first role, in Gang Related, for Fox. She was young and she was tough. Then, as I started growing, it's interesting, you start getting cast in different roles that are much more mature. The latest one was a detective. That one was, I think, where I was the most mature and ready to take on a role like that.

Regina Campbell: Interesting. I love that. I love that you can explain how the maturity and the growth, as a woman and as an actress, grow with time, and you learn.

Assistant directing a sitcom

Regina Campbell: And it must be really interesting to also be on the other side of the camera, I assume.

Cindy Luna: Absolutely. I just assistant directed a sitcom, and it was really cool. Comedy is something I love. I have a lot of respect for it. It takes a lot of work. I think it takes a very brilliant actor to do. So I have a lot of respect for it. And being behind the scenes, able to see everything happening and how it came together right before you... It's kind of like a Modern Family for Latinos, in English, like a Chicano family. So it was really cool to do.

Being behind the camera was amazing, because I got to implement everything I've learned and bring it to the actor in a simple way. I was thinking about this this morning: just because I had to learn all of this, and it took me so long to figure it out and learn, doesn't mean I'm not going to give it to an actor who's starting out in front of me in a simple way. I think that helped them. That helped me a lot, to direct that way.

Regina Campbell: Sounds like that would have been helpful for you when you first started, right? If someone had explained it in that manner.

Cindy Luna: Yes. And I had that kind of help. I had a director who did that for me, and she really shifted my way of thinking and my way of performing. But I feel like a lot of people have that thing: if I went through it, you have to go through it. I paid the dues, you've got to pay the dues. I don't see it that way, especially with women. I think we should support each other.

I had a lot of women in this experience of assistant directing, and I just wanted to give them... if I could just give you a shortcut, I would. And I tried, and I think we accomplished a lot of what we needed for the show. And that's important. It's a win-win: a win on the director side, because you're adding value, and then a win for the actor, because they grow into their role and do a better job, and it's a better sitcom overall.

Regina Campbell: Sounds amazing. I love that, adding value.

Cindy Luna: Yeah, absolutely.

Regina Campbell: Absolutely. I think it's so important to add value in anything you do, whether it's your career or your personal life. So I'm really glad to hear you say that. It's awesome. I love that. So I wanted to also ask you, and I think we already talked about it, basically: what's your favorite aspect of directing?

The business of service

Cindy Luna: Yeah, that. And when you were just saying that: Denzel Washington says that we're in the business of service. Actors, directors, producers, writers, and lawyers. When we recognize we have a gift and we use it to serve others, I think it changes our whole perspective. Every day is like, wait, I'm not doing this for me. I'm not doing this to feed my ego. I'm doing this to serve others. And it changes everything.

So every time I would walk onto set, first of all, it felt so good not to have to have makeup on. I was just like, relax. This is just really me. There's nothing else. All I have to offer right now is me: my talent, the knowledge, and what I've learned in my experience. It was really interesting, because I wasn't in front of the camera playing a character with the hair, with the makeup, with the clothes. It was just raw me. No makeup, casual, saying, "Okay, this is what I have to offer you, and I want to serve you." And if I have to pick up a bottle, if I have to help you guys clean up so that we move faster, whatever it is, it's for the good of the project. It has absolutely nothing to do with me. It's teamwork. I want to serve you, I want you to look good, and I want to help here. So it was really, really cool to do, as an actor.

Regina Campbell: In front of the camera, you're doing your work, and you're staying in character.

Cindy Luna: That too. That's a very good point, because when you have to stay in character, there's not a lot of socializing you can do. You're worried about having to cry in the next scene, and you have all these things going on in your mind. But when you're directing, you're so involved with everyone.

Regina Campbell: You're seeing the big picture, I assume.

Cindy Luna: Yes. That's exactly it.

Acting and advocating in the courtroom

Regina Campbell: Sounds like fun. I don't know if I'd be good at it, but it sounds like fun.

Cindy Luna: I think you do a little bit of that too. You do, actually, in the courtroom.

Regina Campbell: There is some. I actually had someone say that to me one time. They asked me to do a little skit for them. They were directing a small thing, a short film, and they needed a lawyer. And I said, "Well, I'll be more than glad to help you, but I've never done acting." And she smiled at me. She goes, "Yes, you have. You're a lawyer." And I was like, hmm.

Cindy Luna: Yes. Yes.

Regina Campbell: Maybe she had a bad experience with a lawyer.

Cindy Luna: But I believe we all do a little bit of acting every day in our lives. Because that's the thing: when I look at a scene, I'm like, okay, what is the objective of the scene? What do I want, and what do I have to do to get it? We do that in our daily lives.

Regina Campbell: Absolutely.

Cindy Luna: You do that in the courtroom, with your closing statements and all of that. Every time I see it in a movie or a show, it's like, this is the closing statement, this is going to be the best part of the scene. And the lawyer is like, "My client..." And it's not acting as in pretending, but you're really advocating.

Regina Campbell: And I am. I'm telling you a story. This is the story of this case. This is the story of what my client has done, and what they haven't done. They're not being accused of this. Let me remind you of the evidence. Let me remind you of what we've heard today. It's my last chance to reach a jury, or a judge in most cases, for a trial or a final hearing. So let me hit home on this.

So you're right, in that respect we are, because we are directing an opening, a direct, a cross, a closing, and it's all about preparation: how you're going to present this evidence and advocate for your client. I always try to bring out my clients' personalities if I can, so that people can connect with them. This is a human being. This is what they've been through. They're a business owner. They struggle every night. They don't sleep at night, trying to work hard. This is what's going on. This is why maybe this mistake might have been made, but it was not intentional. I bring out the humanity if I can. So yeah, there is some of that.

Cindy Luna: And that's amazing that you do that, because that connects you to a person on a whole different level. We've all made mistakes. We are all flawed in our own ways. And you're trying to say, we're talking about a human being here, who maybe deserves a second chance, or maybe didn't actually do this, or deserves an opportunity to have this. That's amazing.

Regina Campbell: Yes, yes. And a lot of times it helps people connect to what really happened. It's assumed automatically that it's acrimonious, that everyone's evil and they did this on purpose. You'd be surprised how many times juries, judges, opposing counsel and opposing parties have misunderstood cues and motives or discussions. They presume so many things. So when you bring out the personality in somebody, what was going on with that person and what they thought, and just show them that humanity, a lot of times that actually helps resolve cases, because they'll say, "Oh, maybe she didn't do it. Maybe she's not that bad. She didn't do it because she's evil." You know what I mean? So it does help. And yeah, you're absolutely right. I guess I am directing in some ways.

Cindy Luna: Yes, you are. And I admire what you do so much. You're constantly advocating for and serving people, and that's amazing.

Regina Campbell: It is. And it can be hard, because I tell some people, I'm not always just trying to protect you from the other side. I'm actually sometimes protecting you from yourself. And some people don't want to be told, "No, that wasn't right." But I enjoy it. I've always been passionate about being a lawyer. It's not easy, but nothing that's worth it is easy.

The plate of sacrifice

Cindy Luna: I was about to say that. A lot of people ask me, "Why did you pick that career? It's so difficult." And I'm like, well, first of all, I did not pick it. I feel like it picked me. And second of all, I don't think I want to live my life comfortable all the time. There's got to be a challenge. And if it comes too easy, I question it.

Regina Campbell: Yes.

Cindy Luna: Usually I question the things that are too easy. And it tastes so much better when you know you've worked hard for it, when you know it cost you something, it was a sacrifice. I was listening to my friend yesterday talking about how, if you see a banquet with a lot of food on the table, and we name the plates things like joy, happiness, luxury, and then you have a plate of sacrifice, no one's going to pick that. No one's going to pick the plate of sacrifice.

Regina Campbell: But in reality, that's the one you should pick first.

Cindy Luna: Yes, because that brings so much growth. It really humbles you. What you do is connect with the person, to see their humanity. If you have never been through sacrifice, if you have never been through challenges in life, how can you see that in a person? How can you have the compassion to connect to the humanity of that person, and help others see it as well, to determine their destiny? Because what you're doing in court is determining the person's destiny. That can change their lives forever.

Regina Campbell: It really can. I love this. I love this conversation. I'm so excited about all this. I hope everyone's enjoying it.

With Love by Cindy and ending human trafficking

Regina Campbell: Speaking of sacrifice and difficulty: you're Colombiana, right?

Cindy Luna: Yes. My parents are Colombian. I was born in Miami, then we started going back and forth. I'm in LA, actually, but my mom's here in Miami and my dad's still in Colombia.

Regina Campbell: Okay. Nice. I love it, because we were talking about sacrifice and giving back, and it's my understanding you have a Colombian line of jewelry called With Love by Cindy.

Cindy Luna: Yes.

Regina Campbell: Tell me a little bit about it.

Cindy Luna: That recently started, because of the pandemic. I wanted to create something that could help women around the world, that could bring them business, and also help end human trafficking. I met two women who really changed my perspective, and actually my life. One of my pastors, Sharon, has an organization called Justice Speaks. And I met Rosi Orozco. She was a congresswoman in Mexico, and she has an organization as well. She rescues children from sex trafficking and puts them in a shelter. It's actually not just a shelter; it's also restoration. They'll have them until they're 18. It's amazing, the work they're doing.

It brought so much awareness, because I didn't know this was actually happening. I had heard about sex trafficking, child trafficking, human trafficking, but I wasn't aware until they started giving me the numbers. They started telling me the stories, and it became really real. This is actually the largest form of slavery in our history, period, and it's happening right now in front of our eyes, and very few people are talking about it.

So I was like, well, jewelry: when someone gives you a piece of jewelry, it's actually adding value and virtue to the person. You wear it with pride, or you wear it with...

Regina Campbell: Confidence, enjoyment, or it's a part of your style.

Cindy Luna: Exactly.

Regina Campbell: It brings something to define you a little bit. So it's what you enjoy.

Cindy Luna: Yeah. And so something happened. I was like, okay, I want pieces that are different. I want something that is made with love, something that is accessible, and something that will give back. So 10% of everything that's sold with that brand goes back to organizations through these two women, whose work I know and trust. I've met the children through Zoom. So I trusted all of these things, and I was like, okay, 10% of everything here is going to go back to them. We're also helping young designers. I have a young designer in Colombia who makes the pieces, and another factory. So it's pretty cool. It's a gift that keeps on giving.

Regina Campbell: I love that.

Cindy Luna: It's moving forward, slowly, because I have so much going on as well. So I'm like, okay, let's figure out balance here. But the intention is there and the love is there, and I know that God is going to take that to another level and do what He has to do with it. I just felt like I needed to get it started and then let Him do what He needs to do.

Regina Campbell: I agree, and that's how it starts. Something inside tells you, this is it. It directs you: help somebody in this manner, or maybe start this. And you're part of God's plan to help. Unfortunately, human trafficking is very prevalent. I honestly did not understand the extent of it until now. I have a 16-year-old daughter, and I'm frightened, because she'll sit on a corner texting, not looking at her surroundings. And there are actually girls in various neighborhoods all over the United States who are just picked up off corners, in vans, often tricked or drugged, whatever it might be. It's actually very, very sad. So I'm so glad you're taking an interest in human trafficking. I sometimes follow some of the other organizations. I know Tim Tebow also has one.

Cindy Luna: Yes, and his wife. She went through an experience that was close to that.

Regina Campbell: Wow, I didn't know that.

Cindy Luna: Yeah, she had an experience that really changed her life, and I think that's why she's so passionate about it.

Regina Campbell: Yes. It's very sad, and very, very disturbing, and very difficult. So it's important that the organization also understands... In family law, we see what goes on with children, and domestic violence situations are a little bit different. But in general, the psychological effect of abuse on children, sexual or physical, is so significant, especially in the years of development. So it's important that we're not only rescuing them, which is obviously the most important thing, but also helping them put the pieces back together again. I love that. So you have to give us the names of the organizations.

Cindy Luna: Yes.

Regina Campbell: What's the name of it?

Cindy Luna: Rosi Orozco. She has a book called Black Page, and I think the organization is Versus Trata. She has a couple, so we could maybe link them on your Instagram.

Regina Campbell: Yeah, of course.

Cindy Luna: Those two, and the other one is Justice Speaks.

Regina Campbell: Justice Speaks.

Cindy Luna: Yes. They're more focused on Thailand, in the red district.

Regina Campbell: Yes, of course. Goodness. The red-light district. Okay, so wonderful. Love to hear that. That's giving back. That's what we're talking about, that humanity.

Cindy Luna: Yeah. Well, for me it's all giving back. I just feel like I have a responsibility as a woman, and once I'm aware, I think I have to do something about it.

Regina Campbell: I think we all do. It's a community that raises our children, and we help each other out. Once we have any kind of ability, even if it's just spreading the word... You may not be able to physically save somebody, but if we can spread the word, or make other children or parents aware of these things, to try to stop it. I know there are hand signs and things like that children can learn, to show they've been taken or they're being abused, so they can let a third party or a police officer know. It takes all of us.

Cindy Luna: It takes all of us. And now that you mention the signs and all of that, that's something I wouldn't be able to do. So I get to do my part, you get to do your part, and everyone gets to do their part in their own way, with the gifts they've been given.

Regina Campbell: Yes. I think it's so beautiful. Thank you so much. We're going to get the names and make sure we put them up on the video.

Cindy Luna: Thank you.

Regina Campbell: Really appreciate it.

Cindy Luna: Yes. And hopefully we can help. We'll do our best, as always.

Faith and the most influential person in her life

Regina Campbell: Yes, yes. So you're an extremely accomplished woman, clearly very passionate, with an understanding of humanity. Like you've indicated, you still retain a sense of humility and an understanding of your role in life. You're blessed by everything you've been given, but at the same time you want to give back. So I want to ask you: who is the person who has most influenced your life?

Cindy Luna: There are so many people who have influenced my life, in different seasons. I've had different seasons in life that have really changed me and transformed me, and certain people have been put in those seasons to influence me in a very positive way. I think my family and my friends, to be general, right?

But, I don't want to get religious, but once I started reading about the actual person of Jesus Christ, how He walked on earth, how He talked to people... It's so different from the kind of religion we're seeing nowadays, where it's very much, "I'll slap you with the Bible," hit you on the head with the Bible, very strict rules. It has to be this way. But you can't put God in a box, and you can't put God in a religious box.

When I read it like a script, because as an actor I analyze the script and I analyze the character, I started analyzing the character of Jesus Christ and how He walked on earth. And I was like, this is going to be the most important role I'll play in my life. When I'm not playing any other role, maybe I should play the role of Jesus Christ, even though I'm so not like Him. But I can only strive, I can only try, to be like Him, like His teachings.

I guess the person of Jesus Christ has brought everyone else into my life. Because of that, I've attracted the kind of people I've attracted in my life. I know some religious people will say that's New Agey, the attraction, but it is like that. It's not New Agey. If I'm focused on Jesus Christ, then everything else that is added on to me will be around that: the same core values, the same heart, the same passion, all of that. So He's just amazing. I encourage people to leave the whole religious thing aside, go to the Word, and really do your own research on who Jesus was. Why are we still talking about Him 2,000-and-something years later? Why do we have before Christ and then after Christ? There has to be a reason, right?

So for me, that really, really transformed me, and I get more passionate about that topic than anything else. Because when I hear you say I'm a very accomplished woman, honestly, I don't feel like that. I feel like I haven't even arrived. I'm not even halfway there yet. And the reason why is because He did this to serve people. If you sat in an interview with Him, I don't think He'd say, "I'm accomplished." It's, "I did this for love." It was sacrifice, and it was love, and He was always willing to heal people. He was always willing to help people, and all of that...

Regina Campbell: Without any expectation of anything in return. He did it out of His own heart, is what you're thinking.

Cindy Luna: Yeah, exactly.

Regina Campbell: So what church do you go to?

Cindy Luna: I go to different churches. I don't focus so much on one place. It depends on where I am. I always go to be in one accord, as we say, and for worship and prayer and all of that. But I do feel like we are the church. We're the church. We walk it out, right? So I have mentors, a couple of mentors, and I have my pastors. Here in Miami, I usually go to VOUS Church. In LA, I have a church I go to, Radiance. But I also receive from different people online. I receive from Elevation, from Steven Furtick. I receive from Mosaic, Erwin McManus, who is amazing, because he's a little bit more for the intellect, for people who are a little bit more intellectual. Also Bishop T.D. Jakes, online. So there are so many resources out there.

Regina Campbell: And your suggestion is that people experience it for themselves, and read it.

Cindy Luna: That's how you should experience it, 100%. Because there's so much noise right now. There's so much stuff happening, so many opinions, so many things, that we should go to God straight and say, "Hey, can You reveal Yourself to me, who You really are? Because I'm a little bit confused about the people who are talking about You, the people who are against You. Can You reveal who You really are to me, please? Because I want to get to know You. I want to walk with You." I want to get to know who Jesus is, like that.

Regina Campbell: Very interesting. Okay. I love that. I absolutely love that. I was waiting to see what that was going to be, because it's different depending on whether it's career, personal, or different aspects of your life. So I was waiting to hear that.

Cindy Luna: So were you expecting this?

Regina Campbell: Partially, yes.

Working with an entertainment lawyer

Regina Campbell: So I want to also ask you: as an actress, assistant director, producer and entrepreneur, what has been your experience with lawyers during your career?

Cindy Luna: I haven't had that much experience, to be honest. Usually, if I get an offer... let's say I audition for a project, and the next step is that the production, the studio or the network makes the offer. It goes to my agents, and it goes to my manager, and my manager has a lawyer she works with, an entertainment lawyer.

Regina Campbell: Okay.

Cindy Luna: So they'll talk about it and look at the contract and say, "Okay, do we need to change something in this contract according to what Cindy wants?" So usually it's her entertainment lawyer who looks at the contract and makes sure everything's in line. And if we don't necessarily love the offer, he's the one who will start negotiating the numbers, alongside my manager.

Regina Campbell: Okay. But at least you have the experience of a lawyer who sounds like they're trying to understand what you're looking for as well. It's not a relationship where you're removed from the process and it's whatever someone else thinks. They're talking to you specifically about your needs, your limitations, your conditions, potentially giving you some guideline or outline, I assume.

Cindy Luna: Yes. And actually, I know that Al Pacino doesn't even have an agent or a manager. I could be wrong, but the last thing I heard was that he works with his entertainment lawyer, and everything's done through him. So that could also be an option. That's how important entertainment lawyers are in our industry: Al Pacino would just go straight to him.

Regina Campbell: Wow. But then again, it's Al Pacino.

Cindy Luna: Yeah. So I need an agent and I need a manager. Al Pacino is like, "I'm Al Pacino."

Regina Campbell: He's a brand in and of himself.

Cindy Luna: Yes, yes. But yeah, he does that, and when you were saying that, I was like, oh yes, Al Pacino goes straight to his lawyer.

Regina Campbell: Interesting, interesting. But that just goes to show you, in general, it's different things for different people, depending on what their needs are, what their interests are, and their comfort level with the law, or with contracts, or with acting, which Al Pacino should be very familiar with.

Cindy Luna: Yeah. And you know this: if it's not written, it's not going to happen.

Regina Campbell: Correct.

Cindy Luna: So before we get to set, the entertainment lawyer will make sure everything is written, down to your trailer. These are things people don't know. I already know, once I arrive on set, what kind of trailer I'm going to have, because it's already been established, written by the lawyer and negotiated. It's already there. And if it's not there, we show the contract and say, "Hey guys, here's the contract. It's written. You need to have this here."

Regina Campbell: And they have it in a heartbeat. Okay. So there are these stories I hear, and I don't want to say who, because I don't know if the story is true or not, but let's say some singer has to have a certain type of Evian water at room temperature, and it can't be more than that.

Cindy Luna: That's true.

Regina Campbell: Oh, wow. Okay.

Cindy Luna: That's true. That happens. And in the music industry it's like that too. They'll already have their standard contracts. Not everyone. Some people are super simple: "Oh, it's just whatever water, and something to eat. Okay, I don't care." But then there are some people who are like, "White flowers, and this and that." That's not my case at all. I haven't had those problems. Actually, for my last negotiation, the entertainment lawyer was like, "I don't even think I need to negotiate this. It's a great offer. Everything's great." Usually the studios and the networks are very fair. They're like, "Here's what we have," and usually what they have is great.

Regina Campbell: That's great. That's good. It sounds like they're also listening to your interests, and they're watching out for every detail, which is really important for a lawyer, I think. Sometimes lawyers get into "I want this," and it's an ego thing: I want to change this, and I want this sentence to say this.

Cindy Luna: Yeah.

Regina Campbell: And unfortunately, they can kind of get in the way under the circumstances.

Cindy Luna: That's true. And maybe we get interpreted the wrong way.

Regina Campbell: Yes, yes.

Cindy Luna: But luckily, my manager and her lawyer are not into that. They're just into getting the right things, and they're watching out for me and for my future.

Regina Campbell: It sounds like you've got a great team.

Cindy Luna: They are. I've been with them for 10 years.

Regina Campbell: Good. Fantastic. I love it, and I'm glad to hear you're having what sounds like a good experience, to the extent that they know what you need and what's best for you. And it seems to be the case, because it's been 10 years, you've been able to trust them, and they're doing what they need to do.

Cindy Luna: Yeah. You've got to let people do what they know to do. I can't control everything. I'm like, well, that's your lane. I don't know about that, so I'm going to trust you. And then, we just mentioned God: He has the ultimate control of it all.

Compliments and the five love languages

Regina Campbell: That's true. That's very true. Wow, it's been such an awesome conversation. I've got to see where I'm supposed to be on this next cue card. You're so great, by the way.

Cindy Luna: Thank you, thank you. I'm so nervous.

Regina Campbell: No, I think you're amazing.

Cindy Luna: Thank you. Awesome. I'm having an Oprah Winfrey kind of interviewer, a lawyer.

Regina Campbell: Thank you so much. I'm glad, because I get so nervous.

Cindy Luna: I think you've been so helpful, because it's very natural. You're just talking to me, so we just talk, and I like it.

Regina Campbell: I love it, and I learned so many new things. I love learning things about people. I've known you for a while as well, but I'm learning new things. I love it.

Cindy Luna: I'm learning new things about you too, because we don't really get to know each other until we have these conversations. Like, oh wow, you're an actual badass on the court.

Regina Campbell: But did that sound like on the court, like a basketball court?

Cindy Luna: No, no, no.

Regina Campbell: Not the basketball court, though. I'm more water sports.

Cindy Luna: Well, I can explain. When I first met you, I was like, she's the sweetest woman on earth. And then I hear that you're just a badass in the courtroom.

Regina Campbell: In the court. Right. Okay, now I understand.

Cindy Luna: Okay, I'm going to go back to sleep, because I haven't slept. No, honestly, I haven't slept in two and a half weeks.

Regina Campbell: Oh, goodness. Well, you don't look it. You look fantastic.

Cindy Luna: Thank you. I haven't slept well for, like, two weeks and something, because I was working away, then I came back here, and the time changed. But also 12 hours on set, and then not sleeping in your own place. That just throws you off.

Regina Campbell: Yeah. Well, you look fantastic.

Cindy Luna: More compliments, I love them. Don't we just love compliments?

Regina Campbell: Yes, yes.

Cindy Luna: Is that your love language? Do you know the five love languages?

Regina Campbell: No.

Cindy Luna: So there's a great book. I'm sorry, I don't have the author's name here, but you can look it up: The Five Love Languages. We express our love in different ways, and that's why sometimes we feel like we're not loved. Maybe we're with a partner whose way of expressing love is through words of affirmation, and your way of receiving love is through acts of service. So they're like, "I love you. You look so beautiful. Oh my gosh, you're amazing." And you're like, "Well, why aren't you cleaning my car? Why aren't you cooking for me? Why aren't you cleaning the house?" So there's that miscommunication of love, even in language. And us women, we just love words of affirmation, don't we?

Regina Campbell: Yes, we do. Generally, generally. I know there are some women who are like, "Oh, don't tell me that. Just go clean my car." Well, I'd like it to be followed up with actions.

Cindy Luna: Yes, with action. You speak and then act.

Regina Campbell: Yeah. No, but I agree with you. We definitely love words of affirmation, but I do think actions speak louder than words. And I do think people sometimes misinterpret, like you're saying. Someone shows love differently, and they may be doing their best, speaking from the top of the mountain that "I love you," but you're not used to receiving love that way or understanding it that way, so you don't hear it, but they are saying it.

Cindy Luna: Yes, correct. Like you're saying, they're screaming it, and you're just like, "What? You're speaking to me in another language."

Regina Campbell: Yes, I understand. And then the person feels resentful, not taken care of or not appreciated.

What real love means

Cindy Luna: Yes. So it's so important to go down to different levels, to drill down, on so many levels. Humans are so complex.

Regina Campbell: We are so complex.

Cindy Luna: But you know what? With everything that happened last year, and everything that's happening this year, and all that we've learned, I think it comes down to this one thing, and it's in the Word of God: love. I think our greatest mission in life is to figure it out, and for the generations to come, we should figure out what this word "love" really means and how we get to really walk it out. Because nowadays we're like, "Oh, I love pizza. Oh my gosh, I love this. Oh my God, I love you." And it's like, no: what is real love, and how do we get to walk it out?

Regina Campbell: Correct. And a lot of times we show it... It can be words, it can be actions, but sometimes it's also omissions: not saying something, and understanding what someone might need, just a helping hand at the time, or a pat on the back, or something different. But that takes involvement. That takes depth. Like you said, love is depth. It's not just, "Oh, that's pretty. I love this. I love that." You have to go beyond that.

I agree with you. I think that's the real value in life. It's not about whether I have this car or this house. I mean, these things are nice. I'm not saying anything against them at all. I've been an entrepreneur myself in my life, right? But at the end of the day, I think they would be hollow or meaningless unless you have something you're loving, or something you're shooting for, that you're doing it for, like my kids. I adore my kids. And I am told, and I have to remember as a mother and as a woman, to learn to love myself as well, not just to love them. I have to love myself. But we're giving, we're nurturing. So I think it's important, and I'm learning.

Cindy Luna: You learn every day of your life.

Regina Campbell: Yeah.

Cindy Luna: Well, what I've learned, and I keep learning, is that I can't give something I don't have.

Regina Campbell: That's true.

Cindy Luna: So if I don't have that kind of love for myself, I can't give it away. In trying to serve others and do for others, I can't really do it. I'm not really doing it, because I don't have it within me. I'm not offering it to myself. And like what Jesus said: love God with all your heart, all your mind, all your understanding, and love your neighbor as you love yourself. So there's that. You can't love outside of that. It's that circle of love.

Regina Campbell: Yeah. No, it's a triangle, I guess.

Cindy Luna: It is.

Regina Campbell: And ultimately, we're not alone in this world, and there's a reason for that. We're not on the planet alone. We're together with other people, other humans, and we all have interests and loves. So it's important to respect everybody and each other.

Cindy Luna: Yes. It's amazing.

The true superheroes

Regina Campbell: So this is an amazing conversation. I love it. I thank everyone for joining our conversation. It's been a pleasure spending time with you. And hopefully one day I'm going to be so proud. I'm going to look at that stage when you're at the Oscars, and I'm going to say, "Oh, amen, I know that actress," or actor. I was told to call you actor. But okay, if you're on the stage, you don't mind me calling you actress or actor?

Cindy Luna: I don't mind. If I'm on the stage, as long as I get something.

Regina Campbell: Yes, right, right. But I'll be so proud to say, "I know her, and she deserves this. She's very nice to me."

Cindy Luna: That's great, but to me, the people who are out there actually putting in the work, like you said, advocating for others, advocating for our rights, doing what you do, those are the true celebrities, the true superheroes: our everyday working people who are defending our rights. Did I just say that? But yeah, that's the truth. Hopefully I get to play a role like you someday, where I get to feel what it's like to be in the courtroom doing what you do.

Regina Campbell: Thank you. Thank you. When we start going back into court more, because a lot of things are still on Zoom, I've got to call you to come in.

Cindy Luna: Oh my gosh, yes.

Regina Campbell: Now, just don't look at me in shock when...

Cindy Luna: I don't think so. Very few things shock me now.

Regina Campbell: Because I'm very sweet. I'm very fair.

Cindy Luna: I love it. I love it. It's amazing that you have that side of you. That's great. Yes, that's it. That's what we call a well-rounded character with an arc. If we create just a one-tone character, which could happen, it's very flat. It falls flat. So what I like to do with characters is create layers, and then all of a sudden it's like, "Whoa, where did that come from? She was so sweet here, and then she surprised us with this." And that's what's entertaining, right?

Regina Campbell: Yes. So I love it. I love to see that. Thank you. I'll let you know once we go. Hopefully I have a trial coming up, so we'll see. Sometimes they get settled, and it's usually in the best interest of clients to settle things too. But if it doesn't get settled, and hopefully they have it in person, because I keep going back and forth, Zoom, non-Zoom, I'll have to invite you.

Cindy Luna: Yes, I'd love to be there.

Closing

Regina Campbell: Yes, yes. Well, thank you so much for coming today.

Cindy Luna: Yes. I'm so excited and thrilled that I came, and I appreciate it very, very much. Thank you. I appreciate you.

Regina Campbell: Thank you. So I wanted to let the audience know: we'll see you on the next episode. Next month we're going to have an immigration attorney, trailblazer and philanthropist here, Deirdre Nero. Hopefully you can all join us. Hopefully this has been a great episode, and you got a lot of information about Ms. Luna, Cindy Luna, and a lot of different things about life that we hope were helpful. See you next time, and don't forget to follow us on our social media accounts, and also subscribe to our YouTube channel and our podcast channels. Thank you again so much, everybody. Take care.